NOTE: I've done two posts fairly back to back for those that want to read my Studying Warfare post from yesterday please go back to the main page.
I played two games versus my brother in law yesterday and we both were trying out new things and seeing how they went in our respective first games in 7th Edition. We both used the same lists in both games.
My List:
Primary Detachment - Imperial Guard
HQ-
Knight-Commander Pask - Executioner, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, and Lascannon
Leman Russ Executioner - Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Hull Heavy Bolter
Troops-
Veteran Squad - Plasmagun x3
Chimera - Multilaser and Heavy Flamer
Veteran Squad - Plasmagun x3
Chimera - Multilaser and Heavy Flamer
Heavy Support-
Hydra Flak Tank
Hydra Flak Tank
I've no pictures so each battle will be a simple summary of the basic run down.
I let him go second so that, hopefully, my Hydras could come on after his flyers and do...something. I don't really expect much from hydras and I'm increasingly frustrated with dealing with flyers while playing IG. What I'd give for Nightscythes or other flyers. Sigh.
Well, he begins his turn one by surging forward with everything, one Grey Hunter rhino moving onto his objective. On my turn, I proceed (mostly due to Pask, who still hurt himself with overheat) to kill his Wolf Priest and all but three mooks in his Swiftclaw pack. Note: We were still operating under the 6th edition idea that turbo boosting granted +1 jink. It doesn't near as we can tell so I'd probably have done 1-2 more wounds. Pask tries the Strike and Shroud order to get up a cover save to protect from his flyers next turn.
After this OK first turn on my part (First Blood for the priest) his flyers show up and do...not all that much honestly. They took two hull points off the sidekick and stunned him while Pask took a glance. This confirms my belief that Strike and Shroud is the best order for Tank Commanders and that the split fire order is just compensating for the squadron tax IG are made to pay to take them.
My second turn isn't too impressive though. Only one hydra comes on and proceeds to do nothing to a Stormtalon (he Jinked.) I deep struck a Scion squad and their commander but only the commander arrived near the target and the Scions were placed by my opponent effectively out of the game. My fire only stripped the remaining Swiftclaws thanks to good saves on his part and the Tempestus Command, thanks to twin-linked, utterly destroyed his Rhino.
RULES QUERY: His Rhino suffer two glances, two stuns, and a destroyed. Clearly its dead but the Grey Hunters inside had to take a couple of leadership tests. A pinning check for destroyed and a moral check for losing me. Do they also need to take a leadership check for stun? He argued no, I argued twice (since they suffered two stuns.) We diced off and he won but I'd be nice to know.
His next turn was the last. He charged by Tempestus Prime and slew them without casualties (no overwatch even) and is Wolf Lord decided against finishing Pask since the Stormraven had it covered (and, oh boy, did it) so he'd slaughter a Veteran squad that had come out the turn before and still missed all six plasma shots! One Stormtalon killed my Hyrda, while the other stunned by Taurox Prime. At this point I had two Chimera, one Veteran squad that was down two plasma (because of overheat), one Hyrda, and two Scions squads, one of which was way out of the way. He had all of his Grey Hunters, one secure on his objective, all his flyers fully intact, and a full wound Wolf Lord in amongst me. I ceded the game to him.
I played two games versus my brother in law yesterday and we both were trying out new things and seeing how they went in our respective first games in 7th Edition. We both used the same lists in both games.
My List:
Primary Detachment - Imperial Guard
HQ-
Knight-Commander Pask - Executioner, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, and Lascannon
Leman Russ Executioner - Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Hull Heavy Bolter
Troops-
Veteran Squad - Plasmagun x3
Chimera - Multilaser and Heavy Flamer
Veteran Squad - Plasmagun x3
Chimera - Multilaser and Heavy Flamer
Heavy Support-
Hydra Flak Tank
Hydra Flak Tank
Allied Detachment - Militarum Tempestus
HQ-
Temptestus Command Squad - Plasma Pistol and Plasmagun x4
Troops-
Scions x10 - Plasmagun x2
Scions x10 - Plasmagun x2
Taurox Prime - Taurox Missile Launcher and TL Autocannon
Taurox Prime - Taurox Missile Launcher and TL Autocannon
His List-
Primary Detachment - Space Wolves
HQ-
Wolf Lord - Space Marine Bike, Runic Armor, Powerfist, and Storm Shield
Wolf Priest - Space Marine Bike and Powerfist
Troops-
Grey Hunters x10 - Meltagun x2, Power Axe, and Wolf Standard
Rhino
Grey Hunters x10 - Meltagun x2, Power Axe, and Wolf Standard
Rhino
Fast Attack-
Swiftclaw Bikers x8+1 - Meltabombs, Power Axe, and Attack Bike (Heavy Bolter)
Allied Formation - Stormwing
Stormraven - Multimelta and Assault Cannon
Stormtalon - Assault Cannon and TL Lascannon
Stormtalon - Assault Cannon and TL Lascannon
I've no pictures so each battle will be a simple summary of the basic run down.
Game 1:
Mission - Emperor's Will
Deployment - Vanguard
First Turn - I Won (Went Second)
I let him go second so that, hopefully, my Hydras could come on after his flyers and do...something. I don't really expect much from hydras and I'm increasingly frustrated with dealing with flyers while playing IG. What I'd give for Nightscythes or other flyers. Sigh.
Well, he begins his turn one by surging forward with everything, one Grey Hunter rhino moving onto his objective. On my turn, I proceed (mostly due to Pask, who still hurt himself with overheat) to kill his Wolf Priest and all but three mooks in his Swiftclaw pack. Note: We were still operating under the 6th edition idea that turbo boosting granted +1 jink. It doesn't near as we can tell so I'd probably have done 1-2 more wounds. Pask tries the Strike and Shroud order to get up a cover save to protect from his flyers next turn.
After this OK first turn on my part (First Blood for the priest) his flyers show up and do...not all that much honestly. They took two hull points off the sidekick and stunned him while Pask took a glance. This confirms my belief that Strike and Shroud is the best order for Tank Commanders and that the split fire order is just compensating for the squadron tax IG are made to pay to take them.
My second turn isn't too impressive though. Only one hydra comes on and proceeds to do nothing to a Stormtalon (he Jinked.) I deep struck a Scion squad and their commander but only the commander arrived near the target and the Scions were placed by my opponent effectively out of the game. My fire only stripped the remaining Swiftclaws thanks to good saves on his part and the Tempestus Command, thanks to twin-linked, utterly destroyed his Rhino.
RULES QUERY: His Rhino suffer two glances, two stuns, and a destroyed. Clearly its dead but the Grey Hunters inside had to take a couple of leadership tests. A pinning check for destroyed and a moral check for losing me. Do they also need to take a leadership check for stun? He argued no, I argued twice (since they suffered two stuns.) We diced off and he won but I'd be nice to know.
His next turn was the last. He charged by Tempestus Prime and slew them without casualties (no overwatch even) and is Wolf Lord decided against finishing Pask since the Stormraven had it covered (and, oh boy, did it) so he'd slaughter a Veteran squad that had come out the turn before and still missed all six plasma shots! One Stormtalon killed my Hyrda, while the other stunned by Taurox Prime. At this point I had two Chimera, one Veteran squad that was down two plasma (because of overheat), one Hyrda, and two Scions squads, one of which was way out of the way. He had all of his Grey Hunters, one secure on his objective, all his flyers fully intact, and a full wound Wolf Lord in amongst me. I ceded the game to him.
Game 2:
Mission - Purge the Alien
Deployment - Short Edges (forgot the name)
First Turn - I Won (He Seized)
This game was sad, really sad. We deployed but he was one me fast, surging forward again. I eliminated his Swiftclaws utterly, thanks to three(!) of them dying when he went through terrain, but nothing else stuck. At this point the Taurox Prime had fired his missiles over four turns of firing and missed six out of eight shots. I'm not pleased with it. I've also lost three out of six plasmavets to overheats in one turn with absolutely no gain. I've never rolled so poorly with plasma in my life.
I'm almost hopeful in turn two when his flyers show up. He starts making a long charge (needed a nine) with his Wolf Lord and Priest and takes out all of Pask and his sidekick. Grey Hunters bail out smoke the Taurox Prime with long range melta (oxymoron, I know, but you get me) and bolter fire. On my turn I roll for reserves, hoping to make a game of it yet. None show up and I cede the game again.
I'm down to two chimeras, two Hyrads, and only three plasmaguns amongst my Veterans. I can't kill his HQs in one turn (without awesome luck which I haven't demonstrated yet) and they'll split next turn to take out two vehicles while his Grey Hunters do likewise. I'd probably have nearly nothing once his flyers show up while he'd only need to kill twenty-five Scions. Considering its a kill point game, those Scions would have needed to fight like gods for me to table him and win.
Lessons Learned:
Pask Executioner - Potent but expensive and in desperate need of a melee squad to guard it, or at least provide a road block.
Plasmavets - I'm still a fan but clearly my luck wasn't with me with these guys this game.
Chimeras - They still love me and I still love them. Multilasers are good weapons and the lasguns on the side are actually worth while. I miss five fire points but that was a bit over the top and I can see why they're gone.
Hyrdras - Hyrdas suck. Plain and simple. They did nothing over two games and it fits with my past experiences. They perform much better against FMCs than flyers but I'm going to have to find a better replacement for my AA duties. Open topped hurt them a whole lot.
Scions - I can't get them into the right place reliably enough and they can't go it alone (1vs1) against marines. If I stick to them I need to use them better but I don't really know at the moment.
Taurox Prime - Its an ugly truck that performed ugly. I either need more or none and I'm leaning toward the former rather than the later. I might sell mine. Having a bit of buyer's remorse here.
Plans:
I need guardians for my Pask squad and I'm thinking of two suspects. a platoon blobs or a Knight. While the platoon blob is easier, because I actually own it, the Knight tempts me. The buyer's remorse with the Taurox makes me consider selling my Stormtroopers (old Armageddon metal models sell well right now) and investing in an Imperial Knight. The thing can go toe to toe with his Wolf Lord (and similar characters) and adds its nice cannon to the mix. Platoons though help me with flyers since the WILL be manning a quadgun, which sadly still seems needed in this edition. Maybe some heavy weapons (whom am I kidding maybe) will also help with massed fire.
Thoughts?
This game was sad, really sad. We deployed but he was one me fast, surging forward again. I eliminated his Swiftclaws utterly, thanks to three(!) of them dying when he went through terrain, but nothing else stuck. At this point the Taurox Prime had fired his missiles over four turns of firing and missed six out of eight shots. I'm not pleased with it. I've also lost three out of six plasmavets to overheats in one turn with absolutely no gain. I've never rolled so poorly with plasma in my life.
I'm almost hopeful in turn two when his flyers show up. He starts making a long charge (needed a nine) with his Wolf Lord and Priest and takes out all of Pask and his sidekick. Grey Hunters bail out smoke the Taurox Prime with long range melta (oxymoron, I know, but you get me) and bolter fire. On my turn I roll for reserves, hoping to make a game of it yet. None show up and I cede the game again.
I'm down to two chimeras, two Hyrads, and only three plasmaguns amongst my Veterans. I can't kill his HQs in one turn (without awesome luck which I haven't demonstrated yet) and they'll split next turn to take out two vehicles while his Grey Hunters do likewise. I'd probably have nearly nothing once his flyers show up while he'd only need to kill twenty-five Scions. Considering its a kill point game, those Scions would have needed to fight like gods for me to table him and win.
Lessons Learned:
Pask Executioner - Potent but expensive and in desperate need of a melee squad to guard it, or at least provide a road block.
Plasmavets - I'm still a fan but clearly my luck wasn't with me with these guys this game.
Chimeras - They still love me and I still love them. Multilasers are good weapons and the lasguns on the side are actually worth while. I miss five fire points but that was a bit over the top and I can see why they're gone.
Hyrdras - Hyrdas suck. Plain and simple. They did nothing over two games and it fits with my past experiences. They perform much better against FMCs than flyers but I'm going to have to find a better replacement for my AA duties. Open topped hurt them a whole lot.
Scions - I can't get them into the right place reliably enough and they can't go it alone (1vs1) against marines. If I stick to them I need to use them better but I don't really know at the moment.
Taurox Prime - Its an ugly truck that performed ugly. I either need more or none and I'm leaning toward the former rather than the later. I might sell mine. Having a bit of buyer's remorse here.
Plans:
I need guardians for my Pask squad and I'm thinking of two suspects. a platoon blobs or a Knight. While the platoon blob is easier, because I actually own it, the Knight tempts me. The buyer's remorse with the Taurox makes me consider selling my Stormtroopers (old Armageddon metal models sell well right now) and investing in an Imperial Knight. The thing can go toe to toe with his Wolf Lord (and similar characters) and adds its nice cannon to the mix. Platoons though help me with flyers since the WILL be manning a quadgun, which sadly still seems needed in this edition. Maybe some heavy weapons (whom am I kidding maybe) will also help with massed fire.
Thoughts?
As far as I know you can only take one leadership check per phase, but multiple pinning checks can be cause. I may be incorrect, but as far as I am aware, he would only take one leadership check. I'll go grab my rule book. :)
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